Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Bob Whitely » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:41 pm

I've been supporting several Kickstarters over the past few months (some have funded and some have not), but sadly when I got laid off recently, as much as I'd like to support Kickstarters, I have to get another decent job before I can afford to do so again. I really like the energy and enthusiasm and commitment that is being shown there, by both supporters and project leads, and so I want to continue supporting them, so hopefully that won't be on hold for too long before I can do that again.

There are several interesting projects on Kickstarter. Oh, I noticed recently that some are using IndieGoGo the same way that Kickstarter works, which I find interesting. Choosing to have an all or nothing situation on IndieGoGo is a good sign that the creator is serious. Because taking money even when you know it's not enough to do the job, isn't right, IMO. That was why I like Kickstarter better, but recently, I saw a couple projects in which the creator chose to use that limitation. I think that must be something new IndieGoGo is doing to increase support.

Even though I can't afford to support the game at this time, nor buy it when it comes out, I sure hope Elite makes it. Looks cool! I'd like to see the novels make it too. Still not sure how the funding for the novels works into the funding for the game. The novelists act like if their projects are not funded, that the game might not go. I assume that's not quite right. Maybe they mean that the game won't be completed to the extent that the designers want, with as many bells and whistles, because I think Kickstarter policy is that you have to ask for the full amount that you need to deliver what you promise. So, they must have broken the game up somehow, I guess, so that it could fund, but would be even better, if the novels go. Thoughts?
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Flowswithdrek » Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:45 pm

The novels are separate kickstarters. Consider them nothing to do with the game Elite. It’s easy to think of it in those terms. Now, people pledge for a Novel set in the Elite setting, if the Novel kickstarter makes it, the money gets pledged back into the main game kickstarter covering the writers pledge tier (which allows them to write the novel, publish it and perhaps make money). There is no division of the game, if the novel kickstarter fails, it fails and the funders keep their money and the novel doesn’t get written. If it makes it the novel gets written and the Elite game gets extra funding. Now if the novel kickstarter makes it and the main Elite kickstarter doesn’t then, the writers still get to honour their promise and write their book using the IP. So you could have a load of novels set in the Elite Universe, but no actual video game. Two kickstarters for the Novels have now been fully funded, and have pledged their money to the main Elite kickstarter. Remember that Elite was/or maybe still is the biggest selling PC game of all time!

So let’s put it in Cosmothea terms and turn it around a bit. You put your game, Cosmothea, on kickstarter and one of the higher tiers reads:

"The digital rights to publish one PC game set in the Cosmothea Universe, including use of official logos, artwork and promotion on the Cosmothea website. Subject to Quality Control”

So an author wants to code a PC Game called “Planet of the Dead” for Cosmothea, but can’t afford the tier which grants him he digital rights. So he sets up his own Kickstarter for a game called “Cosmothea - Planet of the Dead” which gets funded. He uses those funds to back Cosmothea by pledging for that tier giving him the digital rights to publish. The thing is it works regardless of the outcome of either kickstarter. If the author doesn’t get funded, there is no PC Game and the Cosmothea kickstarter carries on regardless on its own merits to be funded or not. If the author does get funded, he pledges and Cosmothea fills one of its biggest kickstarter pledge tiers, and those that funded the PC Game get their game. If Cosmothea fails, but the other Kickstarter is funded, he still has the right to publish the PC Game, because the creator of the game gives you the money he made from kickstarter.

Now Imagine Cosmothea was as popular as Pathfinder or D&D, people would be tripping over themselves to code a game using the IP.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Bob Whitely » Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:49 pm

Thanks for the clarification and your enthusiasm, Allen. Got it. :)

I'm well aware that no one is going to be knocking either D&D or Pathfinder (D&D with serial numbers shaved off and some cool new bells and whistles added) anytime soon, so I have no delusions. Interestingly, at this point, I think Pathfinder is more stable than D&D and sells better, but in the long run, they too may have to make some interesting decisions. For example, QT Games, unlike WotC, is not owned by another company, therefore they are not as stable. If D&D doesn't sell real well due to poor decisions, D&D is gone, and all people will have is older versions. And there's still a decent number playing those, but it's a real possibility when you are dealing with big business.

The D&D movies were bombs, the cartoon didn't last, some got angry over the move from 3.0 to 3.5, 4E did well only initially, then people realized it had many problems (some like myself new that before it hit the market) and WotC had to rush out and make an Essentials version, to stave off the problems, knowing 5E was not only inevitable, but with all their overhead, mandatory to their survival. I don't have all that overhead. Pathfinder is in a situation where their game is based on a faulty platform. Eventually, they need to make a new version. They'll have to, and what will that mean for them? They are pretty smart, so I think they'll find a way to keep going, but it's still going to be challenging.

While I'd like to have their money and popularity, where I'm sitting isn't so bad either. We can put out a great game without the majority of the headaches they have in place. A growing number of gamers can't stand D&D in any incarnation. We aren't making a fantasy RPG, but a blended-genre rpg, so this comparison is just for comparing situations of future products. We don't have suits breathing down our necks, nor a tight deadline we have to rush something out for, so that gives us breathing room to make a better game than they can. Might not be as pretty if we can't afford as much artwork, but I think we'll do alright. And the game's lookin' pretty so far, and we're taking the time to do it right, so I'm looking forward to the days ahead. But I'm getting us off track, sorry. Back to Elite!
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Than » Sat Jan 26, 2013 1:52 am

If WOTC do decide to drop D&D then I think they would sell the name and the game name would continue with someone else and how popular or where that would lead is anyones guess.

Personally I think pathfinder would be strong without bringing out a new version and just bringing more content and expansions and they could do that for decades including making games and MMORG based on it . It was the version churn that was part of the problem that broke D&D in the end because the fan base became too fragmented. WOTC are trying to get all back with a system that fits all, I am skeptical but we will see.

Back on topic with Elite books I think the Mostly Harmless one inspired by Douglas Adams is the one I want to read and Kate the tech girl on the telly is cool as I really like Click.

And I just upgraded my PC successfully with 600W power supply and GTX650 graphics, so am go for the Elite experience when it comes out in 2014.
Also know in other places as: Jason S, Commander Bo, Silverwolf. I am British and Swiss but working in the Czech Republic. I create Art and Software.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Flowswithdrek » Sat Jan 26, 2013 4:42 am

Yeah, I pledged for Kate's book also - couldn't quite stretch to the audio book. I'm waiting for the Writing Bible to be released before I get started on my own short story.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Than » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:02 pm

Although I think Kates book will be really good and she helped a lot to ED, I went with just the book.

Looking like the Elite game will be very cool, I love the ship in the latest update.
Also know in other places as: Jason S, Commander Bo, Silverwolf. I am British and Swiss but working in the Czech Republic. I create Art and Software.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Flowswithdrek » Thu Feb 14, 2013 5:38 pm

The Ship in the background is impressive - I wonder what it is?
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Than » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:32 am

They did mention the class of that ship but I forget what they said except that it is not a playable one.

I am guessing that docking is possible with it and perhaps it acts like a mobile space station ?

Well on the expansions we may be able to walk around it.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Than » Fri Feb 15, 2013 6:36 am

Quote from Michael on the update comments:



@ Andrew Wright [Withnail on forums]

Capital ships can't be bought by players.

Michael



So I suspect it is a "Capital" ship.
Also know in other places as: Jason S, Commander Bo, Silverwolf. I am British and Swiss but working in the Czech Republic. I create Art and Software.
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Re: Procedural generation and Right to write a book for Elite

Unread postby Flowswithdrek » Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:09 am

lol, I know its going to be one of those ships that I will just have to take a potshot (accidently discharge my laser) at just to see what happens when it gets angry. Large hull mounted weapons, missile contrails and swarms of Vipers are likely the last thing I will see 8-)
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